(30-11-2012, 20:50)Proteus napisał(a): PS. Kuba z 9/10 spadlo do 8? Chlip. You disappoint the fanboy in me.

(22-02-2013, 14:16)tchopz napisał(a): Można też film interpretować od początku do końca jako sen Cobba i wtedy wszystko nie ma sensu.

Cytat:I didn't touch upon some of the points, as few of them are clearly supposed to be a joke or simple movie goofs.

1) Saito has been living in Limbo for years (few minutes in real world translated to decades in Limbo) he could have created his own world and populated it with projections so that he won't feel lonely (mind does that) - bodyguard are such projections; as for Cob and his wife, they had each other and the movie doesn't tell that they didnt have projections either

2) Cob didn't trust his dead wife's projection for anchor in climbing down the rope, he was doing that so as to know when she goes off to warn Saito

3) Architect was not trying to wake Cob with the shake of his head, he was trying to see if Cob was anywhere close to waking up from the dream due to an activity inside the dream

4) not getting the carpet right, plz, even real artists who does a complex art get small things wrong due to negligence

5) asian kid, important? air hostess, important? no

6) and that omnicient, Saito was spying Cobb to 'protect his investment'. I'm not sure how this makes him powerful enough to change the mind of the owner of a more powerful company (poza tym to standardowa filmowa zagrywka)

7) Cobb's the water kick, Cobb was resisting waking up from dream so that he could read the documents. That's why the hit to the chin to wake up Cobb, didnt work, Cobb wants to stay in sleep (also note the dream was collapsing due to the absence of a dreamer, so may be something as strong as a kick was not needed). Not to mention the fact that the scene with Cobb was filmed in slow-motion. If it was played in real time, the difference between his and Gordon Levitt reactions would be barely noticable.

8) Rotfl. And what would that prove exactly? Neibours heard some angry shouting and that supposed to be an evidence in anything? Maybe Cobb was unfortunate as no witness saw them and those heard him just didnt listen to the conversation but just assumed it was a dispute, which might actually have worked against Cobb in court.

9) dreaming of a tank, people had no idea exactly how a tank looks like and was unable to dream it, not creative enough or takes more skill to do those stuff in dream; as sub-concious does the dreaming, it probably might be hard to consciously create something with sub-concious (remember matrix)

10) But his fingerprints were in the room....
And once again, forensic study of his wife's fall would hardly be strong evidence (assuming that they would be able to deduct from her corpse, that she fallen of that other ledge in the first place). People went to jail for less than that.

11) The deeper one goes into the dream, the less effect he will feel from the upper levels. So change of gravity/ music playing in 1st level is transferred to 3rd level in a very minute amount (the avalanche/ hearing a mild 'wind-like' sound). Of course they should have experience very mild reactions when the van toppled (but then is the van toppling as distinct as it breaking the bridge rail- taht creates avalanche) note they say they missed the kick so no way 1st level kick can reach 3rd level

Note: Only sound & gravity kicks can work due to enabled inner-ear function

12) why kick didnt work when van tumbled over and over? well certainly van tumbling is not as powerful as hitting water. As said for Cobb into water, mild kick works only if the dreamer wants/ ready to wake, or he keeps dreaming and misses the kick to wake or until time sedative wears off. Also remember that they were all under the effects of a much stronger sedative than usual, the one created by the chemist.

# yeh, Arthur doing so much in 2 min is laughable. So is Saito being unrecognisable, or probably Saito made sure they never met before

13) Who said that Fischer knew Saito? Just becouse You are a amongst the higher ups of a high profile company, doesn't mean You are showing Your face everywhere.

14) Mal projection in level 3 is dead. Mal in Limbo is another of Cobb's projection (as he was not able to let her go). So since Mal was 'always there' she could have had Fisher any time (Note: minutes in this level of dream translated to several years in Limbo), so she had lotta time. The instant one start dreaming, all fill the Limbo with what they remember of it sub-consciously. Cobb never moved on from Mal, so she lived in Limbo too.

15) Yes, Cobb was entirely talking to himself when he was talking to Mal in the Limbo. His problem was he was unable to accept that Mal was truly dead. He was confronting his own conciousness/ guilt etc in the form of Mal. He was slowly accepting that Mal was dead and he realises that he has let go and move on. He lied to 'himself' (live we never do it in our real lives), to free himself from Mal's memory.

16) Ariadne, Not searching for Fisher in the porch is noobish. I confess

17) dying by gun is painful. Falling is not as u wake before hitting

18) Few minutes difference in upper level of dream is several decades in Limbo. So Saito is so very old than Cobb.

19) Yes, Cobb's totem is totally different from others totem's in terms of its working principle. Others totem works perfectly. The spinning totem makes no sense (at least till now to me). It doesnt satisfy the purpose of a totem [it has no info that no one else knows like in a loaded die]

20) All have control over whats to happen in their dream. But the control is done subconsciously and its very hard to control subconscious mind. So an expert who has good communication between his concious mind and sub-concious mind, can hack the dream world and do anything he wished (as in the case of matrix), by theory.

21) presence/ not of totem cannot make one realise dream from reality. The totems in the dream are mind made and architects can create accurately (unless, a secret is in it). Totems are simple, symbolic things that have, a history with the owner, a emmotional connection. Its not a strecht of the imagination to assume, to conjuring such a simple, important item would be easier, than manipulating the dream in other ways.

Cytat:Why didn't Arthur wake up from the first kick when the van drove off the bridge?

Due to the sedative, a synchronized multi-level kick was needed (the van freefalling, the original plan for the hotel floor explosion, and the snow fortress explosion.) Yusuf's kick (van freefall) was too early due to Fischer's projections attacking, and thus, the kicks weren't synchronized. This was designed to ensure that the team was able to stay where they needed to and finish the job. If one kick failed because it wasn't synchronized, they could try another while using the musical countdown to warn the next level that it was coming. Earlier in the movie Arthur tells Ariadne that if Yusuf kicks too early (ie, if he drives the van off the bridge before Arthur has a chance to kick the group out of Eames' dream), they won't wake up. While normally in order to wake up you must receive a kick in the level above, this isn't true when using the special sedative. Instead with the sedative it takes two or more synchronized kicks in all levels simultaneously. Arthur didn't have the second kick ready when the van drove off the bridge, so he wasn't awakened by the van falling off the bridge. When the elevator hit the ground floor and the group was kicked by the freefall, they were pulled out of Eames' dream (the snow fortress) and simultaneously pulled back into Yusuf's dream (the van). Cobb and Saito weren't kicked back up because they were still stuck in limbo and weren't being kicked at that moment. So they were left in the van underwater still attached to the dreaming device.

Why is Saito so much older than Cobb in limbo?

Chronologically, Saito entered limbo before Cobb did. So it makes sense that Saito should have aged more than Cobb. Another theory is that Cobb entered limbo twice. The first time was with Ariadne. They found Fischer and kicked him back to Eames' dream. Meanwhile Saito dies and goes to limbo. Cobb provokes Mal into attacking him. (NOTE - he provoked her very methodically. This was a conscious choice he made for some reason and this theory is one explanation for it.) Mal dies from Ariadne's gunshot wound and Cobb dies from Mal's knife wound. At this point, Cobb is currently dying in all 3 levels (in 3: crushed by the exploding snow fortress, in 2: in the crashing elevator, in 1: left to drown in the van.) When he dies in limbo, he wakes up in one of (all of?) these levels and dies again, sending him to limbo and washing up on the shore near Saito's palace. Saito, having been in limbo this whole time, has aged decades while Cobb is just arriving to limbo for the 2nd time. A second perspective as to why Saito is older, is that limbo is formed around the "raw subconscious." During the helicopter scene, Saito relates to Cobb his personal fear of becoming an old man filled with regret. And this is the form that Saito takes in his limbo. His age does not reflect the time in the various levels of dreams. With this in mind, the flashbacks of Cobb and Mal in their old age perhaps did not reflect them becoming old in limbo, rather it was real memories of themselves.

When Mal commits suicide and jumps off the ledge, is the room behind her trashed?

No. The room behind her is fine. The room she lured Cobb to is trashed because she is setting up a crime scene that will implicate Cobb in her death. She lures Cobb to the room across from her so she can try to convince him to die with her, without giving him any chance of stopping her. Here she shows a more sinister side: if he doesn't join her in jumping off the ledge willingly out of love for her, she has made it so he might be pressured to jump unwillingly to avoid being framed for her murder. And, in fact, it is because he doesn't jump that he ends up framed for her murder, which would motivate Cobb to follow after Mal and commit suicide to avoid a life sentence. So she was hedging her bets, so in every scenario he would wind up dying to join her in what she believed would be the real world. [co do zarzutu o odciski palców. Nigdzie nie jest powiedziane, że ich tam nie było. Dla Mal, która przecież na co dzień żyła z Cobbem, nie byłoby problemem podrzucenie do pokoju pare przedmiotów, które miałyby na sobie jego odciski. Nie wspominając o tym, że przecież wysłała policji list z pogróżkami od męża, więc nawet gdyby w pokoju znalezione jedynie poszlaki jego obecności to i tak byłby w czarnej dupie. Ludzie szli do pierdla for life, za mniej]


Why is Fischer Jr. unsuspicious about the appearance of Saito, his company's biggest competitor, in Level 2, when he has been warned before by "Mr. Charles" that his subconscious is endangered by intruders?

Since Fischer has been told that he is in a dream and is being protected by his subconscious projections, he could simply assume that Saito is one of these projections, or as he is shown to not be fully aware of the current affairs of his father's business, Fischer Jr. may not have known or seen Saito before.

How come when the van drives off the bridge in Level One, the dream is in zero gravity in Level Two, but the dream in Level Three has perfectly normal gravity?[b]

Firstly, we know that the effects of one level have stronger effects on their proceeding level than any after that which is why Saito feels less pain from his gunshot wounds as he gets deeper. Level three is therefore less likely to feel the effects of level one. Secondly, the dreamers in Level one (Specifically Arthur, because Level Two is Arthur's dream) are feeling a zero-gravity drop which causes Level Two to lose gravity. However the dreamers in Level Two, (Specifically Eames because Level Three is his dream) aren't FEELING zero-gravity, they're EXPERIENCING a lack of gravity. It's the movement that affects the dreamer not the experience and thus, because the dreamers probably can't feel this weightlessness when they're asleep, it won't affect their dream.

Cytat:Z Nolana chyba się wyrasta.

Cytat:ale w moim przypadku aż mi wstyd, bo w okolicach premiery zachwycałem się Incepcją

(29-03-2013, 15:43)Phil napisał(a): Możesz mieć rację, ale w moim przypadku aż mi wstyd, bo w okolicach premiery zachwycałem się Incepcją. Drugi seans też bardzo mnie zadowolił, trzeci już nie, czwartego nawet nie skończyłem.